MEPIS-32 Installed and Removed -- Please Reconsider the Theme
Posts: 1109
I see you guys have been busy.
I have, too. I've spent most of my time over the past couple of weeks trying to get a Stable Configuration of SimplyMEPIS 6.0 working on s friend's PC (which has not been easy).
After going through multiple sound cards (3rd one was s charm) and modess (4th modem I tried finally worked) and finally finding workable hardware, I still had remaining issues with SimplyMEPIS 6.0 Final (for example, bar code like menu choices occuring inconsistently, incomplete screen refreshes from time to time, a relatively unstable Firefox 2.0 and more).
So, I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the announcements about SimplyMEPIS-32 6.04 Beta 1, assuming that it would be the same as SimplyMEPIS 6.0, only with bug fixes installed, with an upgraded Firefox and Flash Player.
As a result, I decided to overwrite the install I had been working on with SimplyMEPIS 6.0 Final and give it a spin.
First impressions were horrible. I couldn't get the video working at 1024x768 to start out with. Now, I'm used to all releases after SimplyMEPIS 6.0 RC1 not setting the resolution correctly. So, I just booted again and pressed F3 and selected 1024x768.
unfortunately, it wouldn't come up that way (out of range errors from the monitor). I finally selected VESA from the boot menu which got me in at 800x600 (1024x768 wouldn't work that way, even with F3). After the install, I tried to select a compatible monitor type and reinstall X. Nope, it wouldn't let me use 1024x768.
I finally got it working by booting into a SimplyMEPIS 6.0 Final (not 6.0-4 Beta 1) CD, pressing F3 to get 1024x768 (which works with 6.0 final but not with the beta due to out of range errors), selecting the correct monitor with mutilities, and resintalling X.
Whew... That's worse than previous 6.0 releases (at least you could get the correct resolution with them by pressing F3).
A suggestion:
If you can't just copy the code from another distro (almost any major distro would be OK with machines I've used that SimplyMEPIS 6.0 doesn't detect monitors correctly on), then at least use a default of a reasonable setting at 1024x768 the way earlier SimplyMEPIS releases worked (even 6.0 RC1 didn't have these issues, as the changes making MEPIS not work correctly setting resolution appeared to occur starting at 6.0 RC2, getting worse instead of better with this beta).
I have yet to install any release of SimplyMEPIS 6.0 after RC1 that worked without manual intervention for monitor resolution (and I've installed it on 4 different PCs, including a Dell, an HP, a Gateway, and an home built PC using a variety of components). Other distros work fine on them as far as using the right monitor resolutions.
I've even booted into Kubuntu 6.06 and copied the xorg.conf file from it in the past to get around it. Why not copy the code from it?
IOW, SimplyMEPIS 6.0 seems to have the worse monitor resolution detection of any major distro on hardware I've tried it on, and the new 6.04 Beta 1 is even worse than previous 6.0 releases. Many other major distros don't have this issue on the same hardware.
IOW, it needs some work.
So, then what, after I got the monitor working by resintalling X from a 6.0 Final versus 6.04 Beta 1 Live CD?
OK. I couldn't see the print under the Icons without squinting. That was irritating. First impressions are important, and the new Wallpaper made a bad one.
Why? The new wallpaper color is too light (it's lighter blue comapred to the previous wallpaper) and there is not enough contrast between the white text under the icons and the background color to see it as well. You have to squint to read it.
So, after trying the other wallpaper choices and deciding that I really wanted the original, I copied it from another installation to use. This is the first SimplyMEPIS distro I've used that had wallpaper so bad that I needed to look for an alternative.
Again (sorry to sound like a broken record), first impressions are important. As a general rule, if I see unreadable text when I boot into a new distro, I immediately exit and try another one.
I don't want to spend time tweaking a distro to make little things like icon text readable. I only made an exception and copied the wallpaper from an odler version this time because I like MEPIS.
Then, I realized that there was no button to hide the panel. That feature lets applications like Firefox use the area normally used by the Panel when hidden.
So, I had to dig through the configuration screens for the panel to get that working the way it worked in 6.0 Final. Why remove functionality?
I also got rid of the "gimmicky" size of the panel at the same time (for one thing, it's irritating to watch it stretch and expand when you start an app, and it just doesn't look like a polished, professional distro in the new Beta.
After installing codecs yesterday (from the repository in the sources that I enabled), and upgrading packages I'd use, I used it until this afternoon.
My conclusion... Look and feel just isn't good enough compared to earlier SimplyMEPIS releases, even after spending a good bit of time tweaking it.
Heck, I couldn't even figure out a way to change the KDEMenu button back to the way it was (the MEPIS Logo just doesn't look as nice there to my eyes). I didn't see a way to change it in the menu editor.
Is this related to the theme or something?
Anyway, after spending a lot of time on it, trying to get icons back to the way they were (old icon choices looked nicer), etc, I wiped it from the hard disk and reinstalled SimplyMEPIS 6.0 Final.
A plea:
Please don't change the wallpaper, panel configuration, theme for icons and icon choices, etc.
It's harder to read icon text with the light wallpaper and the icon choices just don't look as nice. Ditto for the panel. Why screw it up, with less functionality than you had originally?
I think it will make a bad first impression to a new MEPIS user.
Yes, a user can change these kinds of things themselves. But, first impressions are important and I want someone to like using the distro. That's why I removed the beta and went back to the nicer looking 6.0 Final this evening.
On the positive side, a problem I was having with a barcode like look (vertical banding) from time to time with 6.0 Final did not appear in the beta on this PC. I also noticed that the beta was using less memory (around 15MB less on average, depending on what was loaded compared to 6.0 Final).
But, it didn't seem very stable (Firefox would hang often requiring me to terminate it, and the entire PC locked up several times today (requiring a power down).
So, the best decision from my perspective was to go back to 6.0 Final for the PC I'm working on for a friend. It's got a few "warts". But, it seems a bit more stable compared to the beta and it's a nicer looking distro that's easier on the eyes. To be frank, even if the beta would have ran perfectly, I'd probably use 6.0 Final instead. Look and feel is too important, and I want to use the same distro that I'd be willing to recommend to others. The new beta just doesn't cut it.
IOW, I'd like a stable 6.0 with an upgraded Firefox and Flash Player, not a reworked theme with harder to read text due to changed wallpaper, less screen room for applications until you reconfigure the panel, and icon choices that are not as pleasing to my eyes).
I know it's your distro to do with as you please. But, why ruin a good thing with a gimmicky look and feel?
Sure, remove KAquarium. But, leave the rest alone. That's just my opinion. First impressions are just too important to mess it up this way.
Exactly
Posts: 1109
Maybe the hue should be shifted to a slightly darker shade of blue
Exactly.
It's too light. In fairness, this is a cheapo monitor I'm using right now. But, I have to squint to see the white text on the light blue background, and it's unacceptable.
I probably spent well over an hour trying different backgrounds this afternoon trying to get more readable text, and none of the availabe wallpaper options looked "just right" to my eyes (especially with the new MEPIS logo replacing the KDEMenu icon). I almost went through my photo albums to find an acceptable solution. But, I'd rather the wallpaper advertise MEPIS.
Debian Blue came as close to any as looking "OK" as a wallpaper. But, the sad thing is that I've never felt the need to look for alternatives in Wallpaper with any other MEPIS release. This one was bad enough that I needed to.
My suggestion to developers is to use a cheapo 17 inch monitor and see how things look at 1024x768 before making a change that impacts icon text readability.
A darker color would do wonders for the wallpaper from an icon readability perspective (and so would the original icon choices/colors).
Jim C.
I like the theme exactly
Posts: 484
I like the theme exactly like it it is and the beta has been flawless for me.
Rich
Looks is something
Posts: 4077
Looks is something subjective, to me it looks much better than older MEPIS. I think though that bootsplash could look better, but anyway if you don't like the wallpaper you can change it, get over it, don't post pages bitching about the new looks.
Not sure about monitor detection it might be connected to what Ko posted in other thread, anyway this is a Beta so it there to be tested and bugs to be founded.
--
Check out Mepis wiki: www.mepis.org/docs
I do understand that you're
Posts: 42
I do understand that you're fed up after your woes with the new Beta... As often with a distro, there are machines that "like" the distro, and others which don't 
> IOW, SimplyMEPIS 6.0 seems to have the worse monitor resolution detection of any major distro on hardware I've tried it on, and the new 6.04 Beta 1 is even worse than previous 6.0 releases.
The opposite here.
The worst distro I've seen on that aspect, since it was the only one ever unable to even start an X server on the '2003 laptop I'm writing this from, was a beta of Ubuntu 5.10. As I was a beginner at the time, fiddling with the X configuration was not an option...
MEPIS 3.3-1, at the time I installed MEPIS on this machine, was the only distro among several ones that would use my display correctly with the "nv" or "nvidia" drivers.
By "using my display correctly", I mean, well, a normal 1024x768 display... instead of a stretched out (a significant part of the right and bottom of the display are missing), completely blurry (to the point that text is hard to read) and flickering (figure an LCD showing flickering, just like a CRT monitor with < 75-80 Hz refresh rate for sensitive people...) display.
Other distros use "vesa" and mess up the display, or "nv" and mess up the display (unless I tell them "vga=791" or a similar option at the boot prompt). vga=791 is default in my HD install of MEPIS, without me telling MEPIS anything when I installed it.
Likewise for 6.0-4 Beta 1, it uses the screen correctly. I have to modify /etc/X11/xorg.conf for, say, SystemRescueCD 0.3.0 (latest version) to use the "nv" display instead of the "vesa" driver, which misuses the screen.
> Sure, remove KAquarium.
If you don't like it (I don't either), removing it takes only several clicks
Comments on Wallpaper
Posts: 365
Hi everyone;
Thanks for your comments on this Beta-version!
I do feel sorry that it didn't work for you Jim, if you need a solid blue colour as a background (instead of a wallpaper) which I hope is more ease to the eye for you, than try setting it to R:58 G:110 B:165, which makes a more readable background for white texts... I hope it helps and works for you?!? Let me know, please.
Please ask if you need other version, because I don't have an older screen then a TFT or LCD, which shows the wallpapers I made for these Beta-versions quite well...
For the other replies, I say thanks for liking it so much!
Ruud
Thanks for the reply Ruud
Posts: 1109
Thanks for the reply Ruud.
I had already copied SimplyMEPIS_Light-default.png from an earlier version and installed it, after spending a lot of time trying other wallpaper to try and find something that worked well.
No offense, but white text against a light background just doesn't cut it for me (at least not on this monitor).
The original wallpaper was "borderline" for usability, and I found the new wallpaper to be totally unacceptable, as I squinted my eyes trying to read the icon text from my normal chair position about 2 feet from the monitor.
Yes, a user can change it. But, why should there be a need? W well designed user interface should consider things like contrast between the text and background.
Sorry if I sounded upset. But, the tiny details like text readability are what separate a good distro from a bad distro from my perspective, all else being equal (and things never are), and I see the user interface of the new beta as being a step backwards from a usability perspective.
I can't help but wonder if the changes had something to do with a review of SimplyMEPIS I saw that mentioned it needing a facelift. IMO, the reviewer was dead wrong.
It was just fine the way it was, and the changes will only reduce the number of Windows users switching to it. To my eyes, the changes looked like a lot of hard work and refinement being thrown away for a gimmicky UI instead.
Hopefully, I'm wrong, and it will be well accepted.
But, I've already removed it from the friend's PC I've been working with and reinstalled SimplyMEPIS 6.0 Final instead.
If the final looks the same way as the beta, I sure won't be upgrading to it (or recommending it to anyone else).
Jim C.
No need for apologies!
Posts: 365
No offense...
It's okay, none taken!
Sorry if I sounded upset.
IMO, the reviewer was dead wrong.
No need for apologies! Your comment is more than welcome, I hope I can be of more service next time, and I'll mention it to Warren before release, and maybe we'll add a wallpaper closer to former versions...
It was just fine the way it was, and the changes will only reduce the number of Windows users switching to it.
To my eyes, the changes looked like a lot of hard work and refinement being thrown away for a gimmicky UI instead.
Hopefully, I'm wrong, and it will be well accepted.
Well, hard work it was indeed, but I also had fun doing it, and I hope to have some more when developing succesors, and to please every "older and new" MEPIS-user.
But, I've already removed it from the friend's PC I've been working with and reinstalled SimplyMEPIS 6.0 Final instead.
If the final looks the same way as the beta, I sure won't be upgrading to it (or recommending it to anyone else).
Know that we do our best to please each and everyone of you!
Ruud
theme
Posts: 2299
I feel I need to kick in with an opinion.
To install a beta on a friend's PC is IMO not the best method to win converts. Betas are meant for testing, getting feedback and ironing out bugs. Unexpected things can and will happen. The fact that the monitor is not set correctly will tell you that Warren is working on the monitor detection, and he needs input from the community to advance.
You could contribute to this process by sending a mail to with the exact hardware specs and the exact definition of what goes wrong.
Furthermore, there is no accounting for tastes. maybe the contrast between background and icons could be better. But changing the background is not a herculean task. I think the MEPIS theme has improved A LOT. Things might be jazzed up maybe, but the boot splash, the KDM login theme (I LOVE IT) and the wallpaper make this the most professional and well designed MEPIS to date. That is just my opinion of course. Feel free to disagree.
Newbie or not Newbie, there's always a question
Maybe I'm just getting too old
Posts: 1109
Well.. If people want a gimmicky look, hopefully that will work out well for you.
Sorry, but I just don't like the changes (a huge understatement).
To put it bluntly, I think the changes make the distro look amateurish and unprofessional, unworthy of consideration for serious desktop use.
Seeing KAquarium was bad enough to make someone think that SimplyMEPIS wasn't a serious distro for replacing Windows and move on.
Now this (but, at least you did remove KAquarium).
If others like it, fine. I'm just voicing my opinion (since this is a Feedback Forum if I'm not mistaken), with the hope that it won't be like this when it goes final.
I had high hopes for SimplyMEPIS, and looked forward to installing the beta to have bug fixes, Firefox 2.0, Flash Player 9 and more.
I could barely wait to start letting others know about it (since the difficulty in getting a stable 6.0 with newer Firefox, Flash Player, etc., has been increasing as time goes on).
But, once I installed 6.0-4 Beta 1, my hopes for an updated 6.0 faded quickly, as instead of growing on me, the new UI had the opposite effect... the longer I looked at it, the more I disliked it and wondered why someone would want to ruin a good user interface to be "trendy".
I've had a friend's PC for quite a while now, and he's waiting to get it back. At this point, I'm trying to decide whether I'm going to leave any version of MEPIS on it or just go another route entirely.
So, I'm going to take a break from posting here, as it will only make me angrier and more resentful of the changes if I continue this discussion (not to mention that my opinions may not be appreciated or shared by others).
Jim C.
Thanks for support!
Posts: 365
Hi Carlops;
Thank you for your support!
I'm glad you like it too!
I wrote a line or two to Warren and team, to ask if adding a wallpaper for "somewhat older" hardware would/could be possible... I've added a few examples for discussion as well!
I hope to give some good news for "not so happy users" in the next few days...
But first some oliebollen* and firecrackers, Happy New Year to all of you!
*Dutch version of doughnuts, Carlops knows. He probably moved from Holland to Spain for it?!? ;D
EDIT:I've just read your reply Jim, I hope you do stick with MEPIS! If you want to install any version; choose the one you are absolutely certain about, like 3.4-3 or the stable 6.0. But do feel free to drop any comment here! And please don't get angry, we're only talking computers here... And yes, your opinions are appreciated very much indeed!
Ruud
I have a great idea, how
Posts: 4077
I have a great idea, how about a brown wallpaper. LOL, I remember when somebody complained about the colors on Mepislovers and when those were changed everything looked much worse so that's possible too.
Ruud don't worry, no matter what color you'd choose there would be at least one person very offended by the default choice, my only hope is that they will get over that and use the excellent OS and pick up their favorite wallpaper from wallpapers folder or from kde-looks.
--
Check out Mepis wiki: www.mepis.org/docs
I have to chime in with my
Posts: 8
I have to chime in with my two cents as well. Mepis has always been one of the most functional distro's going, now, finally, it has the looks to match the function.
The new theme looks modern and stylish. The only thing I'd like to see different is a new icon theme to go along with the new splash, wallpaper and taskbar.
Job well done!
Kevin
bigiron45 and AdrianTM
Posts: 365
Hi guys thanks for support;
Hey bigiron45, if you like to choose another iconset, take a look at KDE-look.org.
You may like this for an option:
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=45576
It might fit MEPIS' new look for you better?!?
Good New Years eve and a Happy New Year to all of you.
Have fun everyone!
Ruud
Discussion
Posts: 2299
Jim,
Again, I understand you have your opinion. And I think people are entitled to having them and voicing them here. I don't know what has put you off right now, but it may be that the strong wording you chose to show your disagreement has urged some (at least me) to speak out their own thoughts.
That is what a forum is for. We don't necessarily have to agree. In the end it is up to Warren to decide which input he is going to consider in his further development of MEPIS.
Newbie or not Newbie, there's always a question
Ruud! Thanks for that link!
Posts: 8
Ruud! Thanks for that link! I haven't see that set before!
I also do like this new ( to me anyway ) NuovoTX or something like that. Very nice, clean, gorgeous themes!
Thanks!
Kevin
I would like to say once
Posts: 484
I would like to say once more that I really like the new themes. It gives a modern look that is very appealing.
I have changed themes numerous times, but always come back to the default. I believe it will have wide appeal. Great job!
Added wallpapers
Posts: 365
Hi Jim;
I've hade word from Warren, he considered to add the alternative wallpapers to the next (beta?) version.
I hope they are good enough, and the white icontexts are readable now?!
Let me know.
Ruud
Ruud
Posts: 1109
My apologies for rant.
It appears that others like the design. So, maybe I'm the one that's off base here.
I had no right to be so critical, especially since color is very subjective (as already pointed out by others), and different people will have different preferences.
I shouldn't get so upset over such a tiny thing, as I know you guys are working hard to please everyone.
Jim C.
That's okay
Posts: 365
Hi Jim;
That's okay, no need for apologies!
Try the Beta2 if you like, maybe there are improvements you needed.
ftp://ftp.cise.ufl.edu/pub/mirrors/mepis/testing/SimplyMEPIS-CD_6.0-4_beta2_i386.iso
Feel free to add any comment!
Mepis-team will consider every idea...
Ruud
Good thing this is a beta, not a final.
Posts: 959
I think the issue with screen resolution is certainly needing attention because so far, I have had the same identical issue on the 2 systems I have tried it on, until I installed the official nvidia driver, but I for one have no problems with the color scheme. Maybe it's because I am color defective with red and green, primarily red, maybe it's because of the quality of monitor I have, could be a number of things including the nvidia driver, but while I actually really like the new scheme, you have a point about the contrast that needs to be taken into account. Maybe the hue should be shifted to a slightly darker shade of blue
Mike P
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