MEPIS in "Distro Smackdown", April TUXmagazine

Mepis is part of Debian Common Core = DCC -- supports a standard
Uses packages from Debian repositories

Ubuntu is only compatible with Ubuntu -- not standard
Uses own repositories exclusively

This is the obvious advantage of Mepis

Mike

You know, I always hear that, but I don't know a single specific example. The Ubuntu guys have brought a large number of packages across to their repository, no doubt in popularity order, so it's a rare request they can't fill and the standard debian repositories can.

So what are the packages you can't get on Ubuntu? I should try "feh" a little-known image viewer I like.

or are there other reasons - ones that the newbies who read "TUXmagazine" can comprehend - why one should prefer access to the original Debian repositories?

Seems Linspire has the best of both worlds - at a price. They have their own "one click install" repository but you can also run apt-get off the main repos, I believe. I think they're in the smackdown, too.

Yoicks, that's actually two competitors.

MEPIS comes preconfigured for multimedia (java, mp3, movies) which Ubuntu does not. Many newbies try Ubuntu first and then discover that multimedia codecs are not included, java is not included and is difficult to set up, and DMA is off by default. I wonder how many get turned off of linux altogether without discovering there are better distros out there?

The only major pre-configured multimedia debian distros are MEPIS, Linspire, and PClinuxOS. I have tried all three and I can tell you that, on older hardware at least, MEPIS is much, much faster than Linspire and PClinuxOS.

After trying more than a dozen distros, MEPIS is the only one that can replace Windows for my day to day use.

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Bob L Hunter
bicycle tourist, bookworm, linux newbie
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Why has Mepis retained its ranking on distrowatch so consistently for so long, surpassing even Debian itself?

Mepis is, by and large, useful. That sounds horribly trite, but it is the truest compliment I might offer.

Mepis is a single cd drop-in replacement for windows. Again, not an impressive sounding statement. But a replacement for windows, not to mention the software, is still a relatively rare thing .

I have personally installed Mepis on HP, Gateway, Dell, Emachine, and Compaq boxes of various ages, shapes and sizes. Mepis performs equally well on all with only minor adjustments if any (assuming a rough minimum of 500Mhz cpu and 128Mb RAM, Mepis is damn fast with 256Mb on any machine). Total install time is negligible (re-installation is also a breeze since Mepis allows you to preserve your /home directory). And once its up, its up. The only tweaking generally required is largely a matter of personal taste. No mucking around for an atheros wifi driver, no java configuration to do, and Samba is configured so networking with windows is a breeze.

The Debian Common Core allegiance, SELinux, and Ati/Nvidia gui installation are all just icing on the cake.

q

Mepis Just Works.

Ndiswrapper and MadWifi are already there, configured, and working.
Printer sharing is already working on the network.
Installation takes half an hour instead of half a day.
On systems with exinistnig Linux partitions, partition selction and formatting (and saving /home) are easier than I've seen on any other distro.
Graphical installer. (Or does Ubuntu have this now?)
The live CD _is_ the installation CD.

Irv

FWIW

Technical advantages of Mepis over Ubuntu

KDE vs Gnome
This is basically an interface discussion, but for KDE adepts, Mepis has the better offer. In spite of what Mark Shuttleworth has said over Ubuntu, Kubuntu does not seem to get the same treatment internally as Ubuntu and its out of the box features cannot hold a candle to Mepis.

Wireless
Check out the ubuntu forums for issues with wireless cards, and the number of manual installation procedures. Mepis has better support for it.

Live CD is installation CD
No need to download different ISO's. Moreover, Mepis installation is way faster than Ubuntu's. Arguably, the Mepis installer is the easiest available.

Live CD is rescue CD
The Live CD comes with a couple of very useful tools, such as reinstalling X configure files or GRUB. If you change monitor or video card, use the Live CD to configure the new environment, use the reinstall function and you're good to go.

Pre installed multi media
Getting multi media to work in Ubuntu is quite a hassle, especially for newbies. It requires messing with repositories, installing and tweaking packages and it is very easy to make a mistake.

Mepis uses Debian repos
This gives access to more software packages than with Ubuntu, and there is no danger of binary incompatibility between the Mepis distro and Debian packages

Strategical issue
Ubuntu uses its own repo system. In itself, this is understandable, since Debian repos are not renowned for offering the latest and greatest in a stable environment. Ubuntu can therefore incorporate new versions maybe more quickly than Debian. However, the result of that approach is that there are now two different repo systems that are not binary compatible. It does not look like this is going to change very soon. The Debian package maintainers have risen to the challenge, and have succeeded in faster incorporation of new packages, at the same time improving the overall quality. At the same time, a number of Debian based distros have set up the DCC alliance, whose main goal is to improve binary compatibility between distros. A package that installs in one distro, will also install in all others. Ubuntu shines for its absence in this initiative, and this is a dangerous situation. We are now seeing that open and closed source software developers are offering Debian packages in self maintained repos. Some examples are Skype, Wine and a whole host of unofficial Debian repos.

Ubuntu have developed an impressive user base and gained lots of influence. In a world where resources are always scarce, it is not difficult to imagine that maintainers of unofficial packages will have to choose between 100% binary compliance with Debian or Ubuntu. People argue that Ubuntu and Debian (sid) are quite compatible right now, but there is no guarantee that will remain that way. If Ubuntu some day feels hindered by sticking to Debian, it will be a very easy step for them to fork off and wander off further.

Development issue
Mepis is still basically a one man show. Warren Woodford has built some tools that form the glue between freely available components, and has thus developed a distro that has made linux and more so Debian accessible to a lot of people that would otherwise never have succeeded in getting it done by themselves. That is quite an achievement for one guy.

Ubuntu have basically done the same. Ubuntu is a fine distro with arguable more difficulty for newbies to get it fully up and running, but nonetheless, it offers a nice Linux desktop. The question remains if this has actually helped the Linux community. What has Ubuntu really added? What if all the money that has been spent on Ubuntu had been used for less sexy but far more useful things like:
- creating even better fool proof installers
- apt-get enhancements (e.g. installation 'undo and recovery')
- hardware drivers with fully functional GUI control modules
- enhancing existing apps (e.g. improving Open Office even more, or boosting Wine so more Windows apps can run on Linux, or making an interface for Gimp so it can use Photoshop plugins)
- setting up on line training and instruction resources with Creative Common licenses
- Improving integration between desktops and apps
- etc

Many of the Ubuntu efforts come down to 'more of the same'. The enormous amount of money and energy behind it have so far not really served the Linux Desktop other than creating yet another division. The Mepis one man show can boast the same or better technical merits as Ubuntu, so if you look at a cost-quality factor, Mepis wins hands down.
Newbie or not Newbie, there's always a question

Maybe the packages are there, but buggy. To get a complete set of packages to install, most users would enable Universe and Multiverse. Two packages that are important to me are apache-perl and bzflag. Both are from the Uni/Multiverse repo and both do not work. Apache-perl throws errors and I shoot through tanks in bzflag. Debian repos do not have a lower quality Universe and Multiverse. Why is apache-perl a Universe package anyway if Ubuntu is suppose to be used as a server. Basically then, Ubuntu does not have the same amount of packages without using the Universe/Multiverse repos, which are not maitained as well.

One short example: in Ubuntu I could not find "freeguide" (at least when I tried it) that's a program that give you the TV listings. Now, most people will probably find their programs in Ubuntu repos, but if you have a favorite program that's not there, it sucks. Debian big repo is a big plus in my opinion.

I also felt like KDE is a second class citizen in Ubuntu -- maybe I will trust them that they take KDE seriously when they will offer a choice at installation time and when Ubuntu is not going to be synonym with GNOME (BTW, why did they have to make another distro for KDE?).

--
Post questions on www.mepislovers.org too.
Check out our wiki: www.mepislovers-wiki.org

I was a longtime Mandrake user and I was pretty well served by mandrake until about a year ago I noticed that the package support was slowing down a little. I began looking for alternatives and I looked at the debian derivatives first.

I have always coveted the debian packaging systems and the wide variety of packages available but I would always get lost trying to install woody. Enter all the new derivatives. I have always been a distro junkie and like trying different ones out so I decided to try xandros, mepis and ubuntu.

Xandros is beautiful and easy to get going. It reminds me of how much I liked Corel Linux. However, being nonstandard an proprietary it is easy to break.

Next I tried ubuntu. I have to say that I am not crazy about Gnome but they have done a good job with gnome. The newer version is even better and the Kubuntu is good too. With both 'buntus you end up with a good basic desktop that still needs tweaking (java, flash,etc). It bothers me that they don't use the standard repositories.

What I like about Mepis is that it gives me a ready to go desktop almost instantly with java and flash configured and just enough extra utilities to make it easy to tweak. It uses standard repositories that give you the biggest choice of all the debian derivatives. The only thing better might be straight debian , but you can't setup a debian system this good as quickly. I have tried.

"The only thing better might be straight debian , but you can't setup a debian system this good as quickly. I have tried."

I agree with you completely. I need at least one more hour to set up Debian as Mepis is and then I still don't have a Live CD that I can use as a recovery and for travel.

BTW, since we are talking about difference between Mepis and Ubuntu, Mepis is a very polished Live CD with "onthego" feature that lets you save your settings, Ubuntu Live CD is a joke.
--
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I'm a convert from Windows and have been looking at Linux distros for about 2 years now. Being a "user" versus a "technician", my point of view will probably be different than many of yours. I run both Simply Mepis and PCLinuxOS. The last release of PCLinuxOS (beta .92) can give SimplyMepis a serious run for the money given the needs of the typical desktop user, both in terms of applications (package management is Synaptic converted to handle rpms and there are 4500+ apps available) and hardware compatability. Of course, Mepis is supporting several versions and PCLinuxOS is only a PC desktop version. But once you upgrade the packages of a PCLinuxOS live CD install you've got a KDE 3.5 environment with XOrg - and its fast and stable. Its the only other distro that I've found measures up to or maybe even surpasses SimplyMepis. Ubuntu? Ha!!

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Running multi-boot
SimplyMepis 3.3.1-1/PCLinuxOS beta .92/Win XP Home
Acer Aspire 3003 laptop.

PCLinuxOS is indeed very good and especially like the remastering script, however it has even less packages than Ubuntu, it has about 3 times less packages than Debian/Mepis. It also felt slower in my tests.

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Adrian - You're right about the speed of PCLinuxOS. You really need to install and update the Live CD and update to the latest package versions to get the speed. The speed increase you get by doing that is pretty amazing.

I'm simply in awe of what the Mepis and PCLinuxOS distros are given the human resources that each have at their disposal. Ubuntu has a whole company with financing behind it. Mepis has a couple people (Warren and you last I knew) and PCLinuxOS is a one man show at this point run by Texstar (who is adding new packages all the time on request). And neither distro has been around as long as Ubuntu I believe. Pretty damn amazing really. My hat is off to you all.

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Running multi-boot
SimplyMepis 3.3.1-1/PCLinuxOS beta .92/Win XP Home
Acer Aspire 3003 laptop.

the major differences between mepis and ubuntu+kubuntu are IMO

1) time to set up a new installation with the stuff one often needs (media format supports firewall etc) : Mepis wins

2) mepis has WAY better style for GTK apps than kubuntu, even if I played with the latter in kcontrol with the gtk applet.

3) an ubuntu installation can be kept up to date with security without having to upgrade, with Mepis you can't.

In fact, you CAN, if you stick to the testing repos.

Debian have a security repo for testing, I forget the exact name, but I'l look it up for ya.

Newbie or not Newbie, there's always a question

We have:
- very easy install, "tied for easiest" at least - claimed best install if the HD already has another Linux.

- Java, Flash, MP3 Codec, most known media plays out of the box.
(* wish we could still claim Acrobat...)

- Better WiFi support, including Ndiswrapper and MadWiFi installed & configured. (* didn't help my thinkpad, wifi not even detected...)

- uses Debian repos, allowing "freeguide", "apache-perl" and "bzflag" to be installed (These are still the only specific package examples mentioned.)

I don't think that I can use "it just works" - so do most distros for most common hardware. (This might be established by a statistically large survey of people who've tried several on their hardware, but that's beyond me.)

The "LiveCD is the install CD" I'll pass on in favour of stronger points...Ubuntu gives away very nice two-CD install packets.

"The CD is also a Repair CD" makes it a handier CD, but not a better desktop. One could install Ubuntu (or SuSE) and also own a MEPIS RepairCD for that purpose alone.

(eduardo): "2) mepis has WAY better style for GTK apps than kubuntu, even if I played with the latter in kcontrol with the gtk applet."
... this one I need to show examples to prove. There's a lot of talk about MEPIS "good style" but that's so subjective you must show exmpales, preferably with a screenshot of the better-organized or -looking menu or dialogue. Can you name some GTK apps that exemplify the better style, and how?

Keep 'em coming! More examples of the "Ubuntu Repo Deficit" packages most welcome. Also, specific examples of superior style!

Very good summary, the only thing you forgot I think is "on the go" feature that lets you syncronize home with another computer and save settings when running as Live CD.

"And neither distro has been around as long as Ubuntu I believe. Pretty damn amazing really."

That's not true actually. The first releases of both MEPIS and PCLinuxOS were in 2003 (May of '03 for MEPIS) whereas Ubuntu's first release (Warty) didn't show up until October 2004.

Well, the article's in, and accepted. I was able to grade MEPIS "Heavyweight" on almost every criterion.

The editor did deduct two levels down from that for "Portability" because, alas, I had to confess that it did not so much as see the existence of either my 3-year-old vanilla Linksys WiFi card, nor (did the LiveCD at least) the latest-thing builtin WiFi chip on my work laptop.

I tried arguing that the "OnTheGo" feature made up for this, was a special kind or portability, but the apples-to-apples comparison was about WiFi. I gather MEPIS is generally pretty good with wiFi as Linux goes, but my luck, at least, sucked - as it generally does with WiFi.

Still - it was tops in every other category, so I expect it'll rack up pretty well against Ubuntu, RedHat, and the other popular distros reviewed.

Look for the April issue at Tuxmagazine.com !

My admission that MEPIS could not detect either my Linksys 54G WiFi Card, nor the built-in WiFi chip in my new work laptop (at least not the CD Live version) cost MEPIS the "title" in the TuxMagazine smackdown. Mandriva took it away from us with slightly higher points.

Do hope that issue is resolved in coming releases!

But they did say explicitly that Mepis would have taken it if not for the low "mobility" score. I, not caring about installing on a laptop, therefore chose the desktop winner Mepis, and I'm very happy that I did. Thanks so very much for fighting to get Mepis included in this article!

Very good review. Thanks!

--
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I can not say specifics about different distros, because Comparison and explaining my thoughts are Hard for me to put into words that makes sence too me sometimes.
But I can tell you what works for me...

Simply Mepis "WHY" is simple so many things already come preconfigured for you.
Knemo, Kweather, KwikDisk, Klipper, Kaquarium, etc etc.
While I realize that to alot of others these are not exactly what you call "IMPORTANT" programs.
They are to me.
The Kicker Bar is much more Arranged in a user friendly way, then in Most Other distros.

I used Linspire Five 0 and they are devoloping Practices in Business that "STINKS" of Microshaft.
CNR most of the things you can download off their site if you have the money for a Subscription, are Broken and you still have to Go at it alone trying to figure out whats wrong, Because their Customer Service.
Is worse then Microsoft's.

I Helped to test Dapper Drake in Ubutnu, The Gnome Desktop isn't my favorite enviroment to begin with.
The Printing in it still has some Bugs that won't allow you to Save your settings, even if you go into the settings each time you go to Print they still Revert to Default.
The fix they issued worked for me, "BUT" many others are still having Problems.
Running Ubuntu in KDE Desktop Leaves quite alot to be desired.
Try to run Kweather, you can load it but keep getting Station doesn't exsit errors, after putting it into your Kicker.
Knemo is next to impossiable to config, as well as Ksensors.

Post and ask why you can't get these Programs to work and all they can tell you that it's a KDE or Debian Problem.
When it's obvously not, they work in Mepis.
Which has Both Ubuntu along with KDE in it.
Ubuntu's KDE is less Polished then Mepis 6.0.

I tried Kubuntu Dapper as well samething , Plus the Kpackage Mgr is a whole lot harder to use then Synaptic ever thought about being....

While I think that adding Ubuntu to the mix in Mepis is a GREAT strength, Because of their Rapid Release/Devolopment Cycles, as well as the Steadfast Security/Stability of Ubuntu.

Mepis "FAR" Outweighs Ubuntu and anyother distro I've mentioned here.
Because it's Mostly Preconfigured with the Programs I like, And when you use Synaptic with it, You Very Seldom have to Tweak the Programs to get them to work.

Just download and there ya have it.

But thats just my Opinion...

I won't Give UP.
I'll never Give Up.
Until Windoze is a thing of the PAST...

I'm not in the Least Promoting Ubuntu.

While I like Ubuntu, I don't like it as well as Mepis.

I came back to Mepis when I had heard of them putting the Ubuntu Kernal to good use.

Why because of Ubuntu's Rapid release Cycles, as well as their Overwhelming Stability and Security.

They do have a Version with KDE as it's Base "Kubuntu"
I don't like it Because as you've already said alot of their Programs while avaliable will not work, Even with KDE as it's Base...

Whiole it's a bit more Polished then Ubuntu with KDE added, it still doesn't Hold a candle to Mepis.

Ksensors, Kweather just to name 2 of them.

Their Version of Synaptic "STINKS" in my opinion, to Confusing to use.

And if you use Ubuntu with the KDE package added it's even worse. Even though they use Synaptic as it's installer.

I "LOVE" Mepis because it's got alot Preconfigured already, that others don't.
In others you have to install them, then Tweak them some to get them to work...

The only one thing I don't Like about Debian is alot of their pools are Unstable...
But for the Most part I agree Debian is better as youv'e said already, Because of their Large Pools.

But thats just my Humble Opinion..

I won't Give UP.
I'll never Give Up.
Until Windoze is a thing of the PAST...

Well... now things have changed MEPIS 6.0 is based on Ubuntu and shares the same benefits and (potential) drawbacks.
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Yes I agree with that Statement.
But and theres always a but.
All OS have their drawbacks that make them worse then others.
As well as all have their own strengths that make them better then others.

Will there ever be a Perfect OS? NO!

But that's what I like about Linux, is the choice we have.
If you don't like a certain OS then try one of the others.
If you don't like the way something works, then Tweak it to your liking.

The Choice is Ours...

I won't Give UP.
I'll never Give Up.
Until Windoze is a thing of the PAST...